Note: this transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.

[00:00:00] I think one of the most undervalued and powerful words that I’ve stumbled across in the last three months is the word compassion, especially in the realm of women. And so I would leave your listeners with the thought of perhaps unpack what the word compassion means to you and what would it look like to show yourself a little more compassion in each and every day.

[00:00:21] Because if there’s one thing that I see in the high performing women that I. Get to work with is an absolute and utter lack of compassion for self. Mm-hmm. And what that creates is this feeling of never being good enough. Hey, my name is Olivia Dea. I’m dedicated to helping multi-passionate entrepreneurs turn their dreams into reality by building a career and a life they love and making a positive impact.

[00:00:46] In the world. I’m a podcast and social media manager, a singer songwriter, a kids music creator, a, a wife and a mom. I’m the secret weapon behind many six and seven figure entrepreneurs helping them [00:01:00] shine a line and call in the people they are here to serve. And now I’m here to help you. This podcast is here to help you learn and be inspired.

[00:01:07] You’ll learn about podcasting, lead generation, business, and all about the real life stories of people behind the businesses. Just like you think of it as a place to hang out with your like-minded business bestie who gets what it’s like. So grab a cup and hit subscribe so we can hang out. Again, this is Magnetic Pod, the podcast.

[00:01:26] I’m here and I’m ready to break. Cannot miss me. I’ll stand on every stage. I’m available.

[00:01:44] Hello Magnetic Pod listeners Today I’m excited to introduce you to a special guest, penny Laso. Penny is a coach with a great big hairy goal to help 10 million people flourish by 2025. She’s got 20 years experience in corporate change [00:02:00] management, and she understands the pressure of being just too busy to be happy.

[00:02:03] She made a life-changing decision to leave her 16 year executive career, move her family, and end an. 18 year relationship and start on her own purpose-driven company. And she did all this just in seven months. Penny’s proof that being happy can lead to great things. She’s a TEDx speaker, author of Hacking Happiness, a Yoga Enthusiast, a faculty member at Singularity University.

[00:02:27] And she’s also an innovator who created the intentional adaptability quotient, or I A Q A tool that measures one’s ability to thrive in a world of constant change. Penny is passionate about encouraging people to live in the present, live life differently and flourish on their own terms. And Penny, it’s a pleasure to have you on the podcast.

[00:02:47] Thanks for inviting me, Olivia. How was that? Did I get all the details correct? To be honest, I, I know it sounds ridiculous, but I always tune out because I speak a lot. I hear it read a lot and it’s funny, like I’m very proud of what I’ve achieved, but I [00:03:00] always think we are so much more than these external validation.

[00:03:03] Mm-hmm. Points, right? Mm-hmm. Isn’t it true? I think really what we are defines words anyway, so it’s pretty hard to really do anyone justice with an introduction based on things that stuff they’ve done, isn’t it? Yeah. But as humans, we like social proof. There’s gotta be some social proof to give us some endorsement that the person has some credibility and it’s great to have all of that stuff.

[00:03:23] But I think what’s more interesting is the conversation that we’re about to have. Exactly. Well, you did make a great big change. Do you wanna tell me about. That time of your life and making those big, brave decisions? Yeah. Well, gosh, it was a while ago now. I think we’re up to nine years. But it’s funny how time passes and how quickly time passes.

[00:03:42] So yeah, I had a great career. I’d done everything that I was told would make me successful slash happy, and I found myself at the age of 39 with everything you could possibly want, including the white picket fence. And I was like, how is it? That I’ve got all of these things. I’ve ticked all these boxes, and yet I [00:04:00] feel unfulfilled.

[00:04:01] There’s gotta be more meaning to life like than this. I also was completely exhausted and I found that I was not really present and in any moment, I was always in the future. My brain was in the future. I was constantly working for the future and I had a small son at the time who was, oh gosh, just on three and all he wanted was time, and time was something I didn’t have a lot of.

[00:04:24] ’cause I was really busy. But there was a couple of things that happened. I always say it wasn’t like a single light bulb moment. It was more like a dimmer that gradually got turned up. And then I remember one day stepping out into the backyard and saying to my son, come inside, let’s do something together.

[00:04:39] And he said to me, he looked up with his two and a half years of wisdom and he was playing with his donga trucks and he said, I can’t, mum. I’m too busy. And I was like, it was like a dagger through the heart because the only place that a small child gets words like that from is their role models, which is parents.

[00:04:58] And I was just like, [00:05:00] what the hell am I doing? And when I stepped back and created a little bit of space to consider, what was it? That made me sparkle in life. What were the things that gave me meaning? It was human connection. It was being present in a moment, sharing experiences, and it was positively impacting the lives of others.

[00:05:17] And all of those things were the things that consistently got sidelined in my pursuit of more success. Yeah, more busy. And so that was kind of the catalyst. I was like, right. I am going to create a circuit breaker and now I’m gonna turn everything upside down to realign my foundations to those four things.

[00:05:35] So I didn’t really know what I was doing. I just knew that those four things could act a bit like a compass to wherever I was meant to go next. And that was when, like you said earlier, I left the 16 year career at the top of my game, relocated the family from Perth back to Melbourne, left an 18 year relationship and started my own company with the sole intent of helping others define flourishing on their terms.

[00:05:55] And then, Learn the science backed psychological skills to be able to inject more of it [00:06:00] into each day. Wow. Mm-hmm. Don’t sometimes, I know there’s a lot of psychology and a lot of science backed stuff to learn, but I’m also thinking, listening to you that we learn from the ones that don’t have any of that are preschoolers.

[00:06:12] I find that listening to watching, I’ve got a three year old. Daughter, and I felt this when my son was that age too, is that they’re born with wisdom because they haven’t had all the crap put on them yet. Mm-hmm. And they don’t need to be taught to be living in the moment they do it. And they don’t put limitations on themselves and they don’t have this negative self-talk when they make a mistake and all of this stuff.

[00:06:33] And yeah, I think a lot of it sounds like a lot of wisdom has come from your little boy and just noticing. Hang on a minute. Yeah. As well as remembering what brought you joy once. Yeah. And it’s funny that we’re having this conversation today because the irony is that little boy turned 13 yesterday. Ah, yes.

[00:06:50] You know, like the mother that he knows is completely different from the mother that he had back when he was two and a half. Mm-hmm. And it’s all [00:07:00] because of him. He really was the catalyst for my change because it was awakening of what. Sort of role model do I want to be for him and what am I currently being and what is that teaching him, which was clearly to be busy.

[00:07:13] So yeah, it’s nice to be here now he’s 13 and have this magical existence that I created off the back of his influence. So how did you get there? That’s the big question. Through a lot of experimentation, through a lot of trial and error, I always say the path to flourishing on your terms is people want the freeway, they want the fast road that’s gonna get them there the quickest.

[00:07:38] And unfortunately it doesn’t exist. It’s more like the winding country road. Mm-hmm. And it’s like each sort of turn in the winding country road is. You experimenting, failing, learning from the experience and then changing your direction. So yeah, that’s probably when you say how do you get there, I think the underlying theme is [00:08:00] experimentation.

[00:08:01] It’s trusting that action will breed the clarity and not expecting to have the clarity before you do anything. I think knowing that you need to make a change and what is going on in your life at the moment is not making you happy or healthy. THI is enough to take action, tiny action. And like I say, that trusting that action will breed the clarity and not waiting for the perfect plan before you lean in to what could be next.

[00:08:27] And I guess that’s also how do you get there and all the steps that’s making me think of talking like a future destination. And as you said, you were always. Future focus. So maybe part of it is the journey. Well, it is, and I think I always say I can look back now some nine years later, and if you had have asked Penny nine years ago, if she would have achieved half of what I’ve done, I would’ve said you were crazy.

[00:08:51] Like I think we are capable of so much more than what we realize. I think there is. So much more that you could do that is meaningful to [00:09:00] you, that is impactful on the lives of others that would enable you to live a life that is purposeful and meaningful. And the only way to truly realize your potential is to step into what I call imperfect experimentation and vulnerability, which is what most of us resist.

[00:09:16] We want things to be perfect. We want the certainty and we don’t. Want to look like idiots in the process. But the reality is that all the things that we don’t wanna do are all the things that highlight the path to where you actually wanna be. You have to be brave and not be so scared about what we look like on the way, I guess.

[00:09:34] Oh, yes. So how did you come upon this? I call it the big, hairy, audacious goal, because it pretty much is this goal of wanting to help 10 million people. What does that actually mean? What would that look like? How will you know? Yeah. When you’ve done it. So it was interesting ’cause I think that started when I started out.

[00:09:52] I was like, oh, I need to have something big to work towards. Mm-hmm. And I think it was maybe in the first 18 months, I came up with this idea of [00:10:00] I wanted to impact the lives of 10,000 people. That was where it started. So that goal used to be 10,000, and then the year ahead of that, I spent traveling around Australia.

[00:10:11] I was starting to get people coming to see me speak and attend workshops, and I was like, wow, like I could easily speak to a thousand people. That’s too small a mom. And people were saying just by attending a one hour session, they could have their perspective shifted and then if they went and spoke to other people.

[00:10:28] It might then shift their perspective. So I was like, well, that needs to be bigger. So it then went to a hundred thousand. And then of course the year that followed that I, my first speaking gig in front of 5,000 people. So I was like, that doesn’t really make sense. And that was when I grew. So it went to a million and then it went up to 10.

[00:10:45] And, and the thing is, we, we used to try and track it by the number of people I had the opportunity to be in. Front of knowing that not everyone would make a shift. And equally, I’m not gonna connect with everyone. I can’t be all things to all people. And different people resonate with different [00:11:00] things.

[00:11:00] And so that was the only way we could track it. And so we were tracking it, but then I let go of the tracking because really what I loved about the goal was that it really didn’t matter if you get to the 12 million, what matters is that you tried. And then if I leave the world with half a million lives better than what they were, When I came into it, and that’s a damn good thing, right?

[00:11:22] Mm-hmm. So that’s why I love And how would you, the goal, it’s great to have something to work towards, but as a yogi, I’ve learned not to be attached to the outcome. Like you said, it’s really about how am I gonna show up every day to impact as many lives as I possibly can, positively. And if that’s only one today, that’s great.

[00:11:40] And of course, it’s never going to be just one. Because if you affect one life, that in turn has a flow on effect. So it’s really impossible to measure. And that’s why I now work with women, right? Because as I say, I’ve shifted and pivoted and all over the years and the last two and a half years since I started my psychology studies and my [00:12:00] trauma informed studies, I realized that the linchpin.

[00:12:04] I believe of society is women, because more often than not, they are the nurturers. They are the carers, not just of children, but equally of the elders. A lot of them are in caring jobs. And I was like, if I can make the life of one woman better, the on flow of effects of that, um, as a role model. As an inspiration to other women, and equally in terms of improving her ability to perhaps get into a position of leadership to then have an even more positive impact on gender equality.

[00:12:34] It just made a lot of sense to me. Did you see the Barbie movie by any chance? I have been told by that many of my soccer home friends that I have to go and see it. No, I haven’t, but I think I’m gonna have to see it ’cause everyone keeps telling me. It’s not what I, no, no. It’s basically it does allude to these themes, so it’s interesting.

[00:12:53] Recently I’ve been listening to your podcast, the Hacking Happiness Podcast, so go check it out people. And [00:13:00] most recently, you did a three part series on the Angry Woman, and it’s just, In more recently years, I have heard some other people talk about it, but it’s been taboo, like you mentioned, and it’s good to see people talking about it now.

[00:13:12] So can you tell me why you wanted to talk about it and your thoughts about it? It’s about three months ago I started studying what’s called Compassionate Inquiry, which basically is learning how to become a trauma informed therapist from perhaps the most renowned trauma teacher in the world, gab Mate.

[00:13:28] And. The beauty of this 12 month experience that I’m on is that you can’t support others in the realm of dealing with their trauma until you deal with your own first. And so I have been doing a lot of work on myself in understanding my behavior patterns, what happens when I’m triggered, and one of the things that happens when I’m triggered with the people that I love most is sometimes I get angry and I have these little angry out.

[00:13:55] First where I’m left thinking, what the hell just happened? And this is not me. [00:14:00] This is not who I want to be. Through the studies that I have been undertaking with Gabor Mate, I have been doing a lot of self-reflection and also have to see a therapist. As part of that program, I started unpacking where this anger comes from and why I am an angry woman.

[00:14:16] And the more I started unpacking it, the more I started talking to people I work with. Peers, different women in different coaching conversations, sharing what was coming up. And the more I spoke about it, the more I found I wasn’t the only angry woman. If anything, there’s a lot of it. And I became really curious because what I realized is pretty much all of us have anger as women.

[00:14:40] No one talks about it because there’s a shame associated with it. We are not taught as women how to process anger in a way that’s constructive. We’re actually many of us conditioned to suppress it. Because it’s not acceptable for a woman to be angry. We are raised to be good girls, which is why so many women end up people pleasing, perfectionist, [00:15:00] and what happens?

[00:15:00] Anger is an extremely normal emotion, and when we suppress it, the longer we suppress it and don’t allow it to come up and out in a way that is constructive, the more likely. And more often it will come up in ways you never even anticipated. And often that’s misguided and misdirected at the people we love the most, and that’s why I did the three part series.

[00:15:23] I was very curious about unpacking my own anger and how I could allow myself to be angry and really sit in the experience of it so that I could be a better. Person. I was very curious about the science around angry women, which was fascinating. So I’m like, I’m gonna do a podcast on that. And I was also really curious on other people’s experiences.

[00:15:43] So I brought in a couple of other angry mums and we had a really open conversation on the third part of the series about what it looks like, how it shows up, and how we can process it rather than suppress it. You said there’s not many studies, so are there studies on men [00:16:00] and anger? I didn’t look into it.

[00:16:01] Not that. Okay. But I suspect there would be a lot more around men and anger, given there’s so much research around violence and family violence and domestic violence. And I would say that, so it’s external correlation with anger around that. But there was some stuff that came up with the research that I found that said that I thought this was fascinating for a man, anger is powerful.

[00:16:22] Mm-hmm. And for a woman, it actually doesn’t have the desired result. Most often and has negative consequences in terms of how that woman is perceived. Often you’ll hear things like, oh, it must be that time of the month, or, hysterical emotional. So it’s diminished rather than power given to it. It takes power away from women.

[00:16:43] And the other thing I thought was really fascinating was that women, more often than not, what sits behind women’s anger, Is two things. It’s not feeling valued and it’s not feeling heard. Mm-hmm. So I thought that was really interesting. So there’s definitely research, but all of the research says there’s not enough.

[00:16:58] I mean, I’ve read a lot of [00:17:00] papers studying psychology over the years, but I’ve never read a paper a, a consistent theme across a number of papers that have said, It’s a problem. It’s not talked about enough. It’s not researched enough, and it is definitely taboo. And I was like, this is fascinating. They said there’s no shortage of research on women’s anxiety and depression, and there’s an anger underneath it that no one’s, but no one’s looking at.

[00:17:23] Where this comes from, what’s the root cause? And it’s funny, I think we are raised to believe that, and especially with social media, that we should have great feelings a lot of the time. We should be feeling good in ourselves, we should be happy, we should be healthy, all of these things. But what I have learned through.

[00:17:41] Again, study and research is that the happiest people in the world are those who are emotionally diverse. These are the people that allow themselves to feel, to sit with, to hold, and to process every feeling that life throw at you, both good and bad, including anger, because all of these feelings are completely normal.

[00:17:58] They are part of the [00:18:00] human existence and suppressing them actually creates the inverse where it actually makes you. Unhappy to suppress shitty feelings. It’s only going to be, it’s not gonna go anywhere, is it? You’ll still have the anger. It’ll turn into resentment, which is really just a form of anger anyway.

[00:18:16] And it can’t be good for your health. No. And you become like a pressure cooker, right? It’s just a matter of when you’ll. Explode not if, yes. And then when you do, of course you’re being the unreasonable, hysterical, emotional, hormonal woman. That’s true. Yeah. It’s just, it’s a fic circle, isn’t it? Yeah. So what’s the best way, well, you’ve said that, I guess part of the answer is I’m thinking what’s the best way to deal with and process anger or maybe to avoid it building so much?

[00:18:42] Do you wanna talk a bit more about that? Yeah. Look, I’m all about the simple stuff, right? Because a lot of this stuff isn’t rocket science. So the best way to process anger, Is to create the space to explore it. So the first thing is to actually acknowledge the fact that you are angry and say to yourself, I am angry.

[00:18:58] And that’s okay. And the [00:19:00] second thing I would say is ask yourself, where is this anger coming from? Where do I feel it in my body? And what does the anger have to tell me? Like, sit with it, create the space. For an emotion that feels uncomfortable and see what comes up. Just sit with it and observe what comes up.

[00:19:15] So rather than there is space in this world for anger, and I’m not talking about violent anger, but I’m saying we need to understand anger is the result. Of obviously something triggering us. So understanding what it is that triggers us and why does that make us angry? Mm-hmm. Provides a basis for us to better understand ourselves.

[00:19:36] Be aware, ’cause awareness is the first step to change. Be aware of where this anger presents, and then start to look at what. Simple strategies may be helpful for you not to suppress the anger, but to notice when you are triggered and either look at ways to reduce those triggers or have open conversations with the people that are triggering you.

[00:19:57] Yes, and I guess that’s a whole skillset too, how to, which [00:20:00] was mentioned in your podcast. So it’s part of the mental Olympics that people are doing is when they have something, is knowing how to frame it and explain it without triggering. The other person and Yes. Yeah. I guess being tech tactful, so there’s a whole, well, it’s a practice.

[00:20:14] There’s a whole thing there. Yeah. It’s a practice. I’m not saying, like me, I’ve been working on this now for three months and I’ve done a lot of work. Like I’ve done a three part podcast series. I’ve had that many conversations, and I’m still, I’ll still be doing the work for a while, yet, I’m not perfect, but I can tell you, creating the space to talk about it.

[00:20:31] To reflect on it, to sit with it has certainly had an impact on the presence of it in my life, and equally the relationships I have where it presents because I’ve been able to talk about what I’m uncovering and learning about it with the people that it’s often directed at. What would your. Tips be for happiness?

[00:20:48] ’cause I think you’ve basically said something along the lines of, it’s not about always being happy, so what is happiness look like to you? Yeah, and it’s funny, like I call myself a happiness hacker and the company’s called Hacking [00:21:00] happy.co. But realistically, where I invest my energy and time with clients is in the realm of flourishing and to flourish is to have a meaningful life, to positively impact the lives of others and to have great.

[00:21:12] Or deep human connections, it’s to live a good life. And I like the term flourishing more than I like the term happiness. ’cause happiness is fleeting, right? Flourishing is more like a practice. And I said this early on in my, I think in my book, happiness is not an end state, nor is it a goal. It’s a way of.

[00:21:29] Be and flourishing speaks exactly to that. And so what is it? For me, it’s about looking at what does a flourishing day look like? Because how you live your days is how you live your life. So looking at the day before you and saying, what are the simple ingredients that would make this a great day for me?

[00:21:47] And for me, like I’ve been playing with this for a long time. A great day for me is some very simple things. It’s like today I often start the day with movement of some sort. Mm-hmm. So whether it’s yoga, lifting, weight, [00:22:00] I will walk the dog in nature every morning. I meditate. I journal at the start of the day because it grounds me.

[00:22:07] It makes me feel good and it enables me to set my intention for how I want the day to unfold. I spend time where I’m present with my son on the days that he’s with me. So whether that is us sitting down and having dinner, whether it’s us watching the soccer World Cup at the moment, it’s the little things.

[00:22:22] Or just going to the park with the dog at night and kicking the soccer ball. ’cause that’s what he’s into. These are the things that. Make my life flourish and having those ingredients in my life or in my days more often than not, is what enables me to feel like I’m flourishing. And I think that’s the thing we are all looking for this elusive sort of silver bullet.

[00:22:40] And the reality is, having done this work with thousands around the world now, flourishing is always in the simple things. It’s mm-hmm sharing experiences. It’s positively impacting the lives of others. It’s being connected to nature. Animals make a lot of people feel like they’re flourishing. It’s. Being humanly connected.

[00:22:58] It is the simple, absolutely. Things that are [00:23:00] often free. I’ve got a song I wrote ’cause it’s another thing I do and it’s called Everyday Things because it’s exactly, I love all the everyday ordinary things and they seriously are like I I’ll with my son for example, and he might be cuddling his sister or something and I’ll just say, stop.

[00:23:14] Take a photo with your brain. Oh, this is a moment. Oh look, there’s a rainbow look. This is a moment like it’s just those ordinary, everyday things are just the best. Absolutely. Remembering to notice that. And also personally, I think, as I said earlier, toddlers are my role model. Sometimes they’re a bit dysregulated, so they’ve got way to go there, but I do really admire how they express their emotion and then it’s over and then they’re back to.

[00:23:37] Regulated and happy, and I think we could learn a thing or two from that. Alright. Before we wrap up, is there anything I haven’t asked you that you would really love my listeners to know? Oh, I’ll share something that’s top of mind for me at the moment. Again, just because of what I’m learning about myself and in my studies and it’s compassion, I think one of the most undervalued and powerful words.

[00:23:58] That I’ve stumbled across in the [00:24:00] last three months is the word compassion, especially in the realm of women. And so I would leave your listeners with the thought of perhaps unpack what the word compassion means to you and what would it look like to show yourself a little more compassion in each and every day.

[00:24:15] Because if there’s one thing that I see in the high performing women, That I get to work with is an absolute and utter lack of compassion for self. Mm-hmm. And what that creates is this feeling of never being good enough. So that’s what I would leave your listeners with. Understand. That’s beautiful.

[00:24:32] Thank you. Word compassion means for you. And what would it look like if you could give yourself a little. Compassionate each day. Yeah. Because we’ve gotta be our own best friend, don’t we? And sometimes the way we talk to ourselves would be, we wouldn’t accept it from someone else. So Yeah, that’s a beautiful point.

[00:24:47] How can people work with you and how can people find you? Yeah, there’s two ways you can find me on my website hacking happy.co. But for those people who love a bit of LinkedIn, I’m pretty prolific on the old LinkedIn. If you search [00:25:00] my name Penny Laso, you’ll find me there. I’m also on Instagram. You’ll find me at hacking happy dot.

[00:25:05] Excellent. And of course there’s a podcast if you wanna get Penny in your ears. Yes, love podcast. Alright, we’ll put all the links in the show notes. Thanks so much. Thanks, Olivia. Greatly appreciate it. So what were your key takeaways from today? Did it raise any questions? What would you like to know more about?

[00:25:21] Let me know. You can contact me via social media or email. I don’t care which way you use. Just reach out to me. I’d love to chat with you. And remember, you can get access to lots of free podcast resources that’ll help you get started or help you improve your podcast@livymusicmedia.com slash freebies.

[00:25:40] Hit subscribe ’cause I wanna see you again for now. Go forth. Be the awesome person you are. Live the life you want to live and have fun. You’ve got this. See you next time.[00:26:00]